I first learned of
Discovery Used Record store three years ago through Yelp. Reviews were favourable, so I decided to
check out the store’s website, and I was immediately impressed with the detailed
online Inventory of every title sold, as well as the informative New Weekly Arrivals
listing which clearly differentiated Discovery Records from other local record
stores.
Over these past three years
I have had the pleasure of making many trips to the store and have marveled
at the store’s staying power in such a dynamic retail Used Records market. I
have purchased 264 records during this period and discovered (pardon the pun)
hard-to-find rare titles, such as Television’s Marquee Moon, Captain Beefheart’s Trout Mask Replica and Wire’s Pink Flag.
Candid, outspoken, insightful and humorous, Jim Levitt provides
an insider’s view of navigating the ups and downs of running a Toronto Used
Record store for the past 30+ years!
Here are some snippets of the interview with Jim Leavitt,
owner of Discovery Records:
On relocating from his
first Record Store:
“My landlord also ran a
church called the Christian Fellowship Association. I think he wanted me out of
there because I was selling the devils music.”
The glory years selling
Used Music:
“Well the best years were the late 80s early 90s because of CDs. We were
selling a lot of CDs and the CDs were still relatively expensive in the stores
then.”
Comments on the Vinyl
Record Revival:
“There's a kind of vinyl resurgence which has become a bit of a fad
really. There are people that are not going to be record collectors for long, they
are just in it now because it's kind of a groovy thing.”
The typical types of
individuals looking to sell their records:
“80% of the calls I get are all for not because they’re people trying to
sell their grandmothers Mantovani records. (Mantovani was big in the 50s!!)”
The stereo-typical serious
record collector:
“Social outcasts. Quite often they sit at home and file their records and
listen to them. And it’s almost entirely guys.”
Buying and Selling Philosophy:
“One of the first records that I received was a version of Beatles ‘butcher’
Yesterday and Today record but I simply couldn’t afford it at the time. I
explained to the owners what they had. I
have found that it was important to be honest when you're dealing with people
buying records.”
What follows is the complete transcription of my 45 minute interview
originally captured on a Voice Recorder:
Q. When
did you first open the store and what were the circumstances to get into this
business?
September 1982. I spent the whole summer that
year trying to get a job after I actually got fired by my uncle from a job that
I had. When you tell people in interviews that you got fired from your uncle
they're not going to hire you. Had 3000 records in my personal collection. I
decided after taking the summer off playing tennis every day that I would open a
store, try it for a couple months and then go back to driving cab or something
after that. So that's what I did. I hit up
my relatives for all their records. Got
my hands on about 5000 records that I opened up the store with. Got free tables
from Chairman Mills party supply people they were not in very good shape. As
well let’s just say I got my hands on a bunch of milk crates. That was my decor
- rotten old saggy tables and about 25 milk crates. That's how I opened the
store. About 10 minutes after I opened the door a guy named Jerry waltzed
in, introduced himself and bought a record.
Q. How did you feel after the first sale?
I was just amazed at how simple it all was.
Q. How did you select the name?
Disc records ... Discovery. The logo had the design of a record and the tonearm formed a D in my logo. That was all part of the concept and the name too.
Q. How did you select this location?
Actually started at Queen and Woodbine when the race track was still there. Store was right across the street from the racetrack. The store I had was 600 square ft. in total, that's including the 300 square-foot basement. In other words: tiny. There was no rhyme or reason for it. I was just that the store was $300 a month. I lived in the location until 1990 for about eight or nine years.
Q. And how did you move to this Queen St location?
I had numerous landlords at that time at that store and the last one I had also ran a church called the Christian Fellowship Association. I think he wanted me out of there because I was selling the devils music … as well as gospel. He out and out lied to me he said I had to move because he was going to open up a Sunday school in my store. The week after I moved it was a carpet store. He was a shyster.
Q. So you've been in this location since 1990? You’re renting this particular store?
Yes the same landlord the whole time. He's been pretty fair with me. Can't complain. However I do assume because this neighborhood is getting more popular that one day I will just have to do something dramatically different. Work off the Internet entirely like some other stores were forced to do for the exactly same reason.
Q. If I'm not mistaken some of your sales come through the Internet and you ship records to different countries. So what are the most exotic locations that you ship?
Well on a regular basis there's two guys in Russia, one guy in Japan and another in the Ukraine. Those are the furthest away. Occasionally I get orders from Hong Kong and Singapore and only once from Brazil -that's the only place in South America. Never in Africa except one or two orders from South Africa and this guy from Australia. He was actually here in the store yesterday. He comes once a year.
Q. Sounds like you've developed some very loyal customers over the years?
I assume that the regular guys are reselling the records. I know for sure one guy is but I think that anybody who orders from me from overseas in quantity on a regular basis is a dealer. I don't ask. I don't care.
Q. Roughly how many units would you ship abroad versus primarily in store?
I've never sat down and figured it out. On a monthly basis it could be as high as 25% some months but otherwise it's 10% in other months.
Q. Going back since1982 what were your boom years in terms of volume and format ie. CD versus vinyl?
Well the best years were the late 80s early 90s because of CDs. We were selling a lot of CDs and the CDs were still relatively expensive in the stores then. I lucked out and met a few people who are selling me real recent releases and I had regular clientele and we stayed open until 8 o'clock every night back then. I had a guy working for me from 3 to 8 every day who lived above the store. So it all worked out perfectly well. CDs were the boom years. I was making a lot more money than I am now.
Q. Tell me about your buying process. Is it mainly people coming in selling their record collection or do you go and advertise to seek out personal collections?
Yes but I only pick up records with a 500 minimum quantity. Even then they got to mention a bunch of names that I really like. And they got to be willing to do it the way that I describe which is pick and choose. Most people of course want to sell them all. I always point out to them that you should get top-buck for what you can and then sell all the rest. Most people see that as a fairly logical concept. Some don't. But that's the way they're going to make the most money.
Q. So how often would you get involved in the pickups?
I really try to avoid it now. I’m older so it's hard work loading1500 records into my car which is exactly how many it will carry. But if somebody has passed away and it sounds like they have a really good collection, I'll be there in a shot.
Q. How did you feel after the first sale?
I was just amazed at how simple it all was.
Q. How did you select the name?
Disc records ... Discovery. The logo had the design of a record and the tonearm formed a D in my logo. That was all part of the concept and the name too.
Q. How did you select this location?
Actually started at Queen and Woodbine when the race track was still there. Store was right across the street from the racetrack. The store I had was 600 square ft. in total, that's including the 300 square-foot basement. In other words: tiny. There was no rhyme or reason for it. I was just that the store was $300 a month. I lived in the location until 1990 for about eight or nine years.
Q. And how did you move to this Queen St location?
I had numerous landlords at that time at that store and the last one I had also ran a church called the Christian Fellowship Association. I think he wanted me out of there because I was selling the devils music … as well as gospel. He out and out lied to me he said I had to move because he was going to open up a Sunday school in my store. The week after I moved it was a carpet store. He was a shyster.
Q. So you've been in this location since 1990? You’re renting this particular store?
Yes the same landlord the whole time. He's been pretty fair with me. Can't complain. However I do assume because this neighborhood is getting more popular that one day I will just have to do something dramatically different. Work off the Internet entirely like some other stores were forced to do for the exactly same reason.
Q. If I'm not mistaken some of your sales come through the Internet and you ship records to different countries. So what are the most exotic locations that you ship?
Well on a regular basis there's two guys in Russia, one guy in Japan and another in the Ukraine. Those are the furthest away. Occasionally I get orders from Hong Kong and Singapore and only once from Brazil -that's the only place in South America. Never in Africa except one or two orders from South Africa and this guy from Australia. He was actually here in the store yesterday. He comes once a year.
Q. Sounds like you've developed some very loyal customers over the years?
I assume that the regular guys are reselling the records. I know for sure one guy is but I think that anybody who orders from me from overseas in quantity on a regular basis is a dealer. I don't ask. I don't care.
Q. Roughly how many units would you ship abroad versus primarily in store?
I've never sat down and figured it out. On a monthly basis it could be as high as 25% some months but otherwise it's 10% in other months.
Q. Going back since1982 what were your boom years in terms of volume and format ie. CD versus vinyl?
Well the best years were the late 80s early 90s because of CDs. We were selling a lot of CDs and the CDs were still relatively expensive in the stores then. I lucked out and met a few people who are selling me real recent releases and I had regular clientele and we stayed open until 8 o'clock every night back then. I had a guy working for me from 3 to 8 every day who lived above the store. So it all worked out perfectly well. CDs were the boom years. I was making a lot more money than I am now.
Q. Tell me about your buying process. Is it mainly people coming in selling their record collection or do you go and advertise to seek out personal collections?
Yes but I only pick up records with a 500 minimum quantity. Even then they got to mention a bunch of names that I really like. And they got to be willing to do it the way that I describe which is pick and choose. Most people of course want to sell them all. I always point out to them that you should get top-buck for what you can and then sell all the rest. Most people see that as a fairly logical concept. Some don't. But that's the way they're going to make the most money.
Q. So how often would you get involved in the pickups?
I really try to avoid it now. I’m older so it's hard work loading1500 records into my car which is exactly how many it will carry. But if somebody has passed away and it sounds like they have a really good collection, I'll be there in a shot.
Q. Do they contact you or how do they find out about
these folks?
They find out about me on the Internet. They Google ‘Toronto used record stores’ and I come up in the top five. But 80% of the calls I get are all for not because they’re people trying to sell their grandmothers Mantovani records.
They find out about me on the Internet. They Google ‘Toronto used record stores’ and I come up in the top five. But 80% of the calls I get are all for not because they’re people trying to sell their grandmothers Mantovani records.
Q.
Mantovani? I don’t even know who that is?
He was big in the 50s.
Q. Can you
tell me about some of your regular sellers?
I do have a number of regular guys who usually trade stuff. But I don’t have many like that. Usually it's a one-shot deal with people. They sell their collection and that's it. But there is this one guy who comes in every two weeks and sells records from his personal collection. He's been doing this for the past five years and I don't even know his name. We often have a difference of opinion regarding what a record is worth. For example a Spooky Tooth record. I offer him a certain amount for it and he says well its worth more than that and so on back-and-forth. But I always make sure I keep him happy. Matter of fact I remember selling one of his records for a huge profit and he knew it because it was on my website. He came back and said “I noticed you sold it for $80 and you only gave me $10” as an example. I responded “Yeah it was worth more than I thought so here's another $25” sort of thing.
Q. How do you price your vinyl records?
Jim: Supply and demand and then of course condition. If it's a record I know 200 people are looking for, it could be priced at $10-$20 like Led Zeppelin One. Not big ticket items. Big ticket items are ones that are only real record collectors want and they're real obscure ones generally. But they are the exception rather than the rule. Most people are just looking for Neil Young records. However, there are lots of people looking for Plastic Cloud that would pay $500-$1000 for those records.
Q. What is your supply of records relative to what it was when you first started?
I keep thinking it's going to dry up and go away but it never seems to. I've had dry periods but they’ve always been followed by an onslaught of product. It's not been a big problem. I can't imagine that it will continue that way forever but there are always people than need money and there's always people that are downsizing and unfortunately there are always people that are passing away.
Q. Are you noticing any difference in terms of the type of people that are buying vinyl now versus then?
Not really. There's a kind of vinyl resurgence which has become a bit of a fad really. There are people that are not going to be record collectors for long, they are just in it now because it's kind of a groovy thing. As a matter of fact that's already starting to wane. You see those people once or twice maybe and that's about it. They are only in it for the laughs basically. They enjoy the music I'm not saying they don't but there's other people I’ve had coming to my store twice a week for 20 years. You can tell who's a serious collector. You can tell right away.
Q. How would you describe the serious collector?
Social outcasts. Quite often they sit at home and file their records and listen to them. And it’s almost entirely guys.
Q. Are they older or younger guys generationally?
Age doesn't generally enter into it. Probably my very best customer is in his mid-20s. I know for fact he still lives at home. More money to spend on records.
Q. One feature that differentiates you from the rest is your online inventory. Just amazing. Every record is captured that has been sold since the 90s. Did you consciously make a decision to do this from the beginning?
1996 I went into an Internet café. Back then they had no Google, I think was AltaVista. Typed in Rolling Stones and immediately tons of request came back for Rolling Stones records. Within the first week I bought my first computer took lessons from a guy who did the point of sales program and another guy who designed the website. The three of us went to dinner and that's how it started. It took six months after that point to get the inventory loaded onto the website. That was a pretty slow process. Luckily were able to find the All Music's Guide people. We downloaded all their titles from their CD ROM at the time. We also downloaded the titles from the UK's Record Collector’s magazine. We filled in all the ones we had in stock and then we erased all the rest. It still took six months with all the additional help. I had a number of friends who did the inputting for me. Had a number of people hated doing it and quit after one day.
I do have a number of regular guys who usually trade stuff. But I don’t have many like that. Usually it's a one-shot deal with people. They sell their collection and that's it. But there is this one guy who comes in every two weeks and sells records from his personal collection. He's been doing this for the past five years and I don't even know his name. We often have a difference of opinion regarding what a record is worth. For example a Spooky Tooth record. I offer him a certain amount for it and he says well its worth more than that and so on back-and-forth. But I always make sure I keep him happy. Matter of fact I remember selling one of his records for a huge profit and he knew it because it was on my website. He came back and said “I noticed you sold it for $80 and you only gave me $10” as an example. I responded “Yeah it was worth more than I thought so here's another $25” sort of thing.
Q. How do you price your vinyl records?
Jim: Supply and demand and then of course condition. If it's a record I know 200 people are looking for, it could be priced at $10-$20 like Led Zeppelin One. Not big ticket items. Big ticket items are ones that are only real record collectors want and they're real obscure ones generally. But they are the exception rather than the rule. Most people are just looking for Neil Young records. However, there are lots of people looking for Plastic Cloud that would pay $500-$1000 for those records.
Q. What is your supply of records relative to what it was when you first started?
I keep thinking it's going to dry up and go away but it never seems to. I've had dry periods but they’ve always been followed by an onslaught of product. It's not been a big problem. I can't imagine that it will continue that way forever but there are always people than need money and there's always people that are downsizing and unfortunately there are always people that are passing away.
Q. Are you noticing any difference in terms of the type of people that are buying vinyl now versus then?
Not really. There's a kind of vinyl resurgence which has become a bit of a fad really. There are people that are not going to be record collectors for long, they are just in it now because it's kind of a groovy thing. As a matter of fact that's already starting to wane. You see those people once or twice maybe and that's about it. They are only in it for the laughs basically. They enjoy the music I'm not saying they don't but there's other people I’ve had coming to my store twice a week for 20 years. You can tell who's a serious collector. You can tell right away.
Q. How would you describe the serious collector?
Social outcasts. Quite often they sit at home and file their records and listen to them. And it’s almost entirely guys.
Q. Are they older or younger guys generationally?
Age doesn't generally enter into it. Probably my very best customer is in his mid-20s. I know for fact he still lives at home. More money to spend on records.
Q. One feature that differentiates you from the rest is your online inventory. Just amazing. Every record is captured that has been sold since the 90s. Did you consciously make a decision to do this from the beginning?
1996 I went into an Internet café. Back then they had no Google, I think was AltaVista. Typed in Rolling Stones and immediately tons of request came back for Rolling Stones records. Within the first week I bought my first computer took lessons from a guy who did the point of sales program and another guy who designed the website. The three of us went to dinner and that's how it started. It took six months after that point to get the inventory loaded onto the website. That was a pretty slow process. Luckily were able to find the All Music's Guide people. We downloaded all their titles from their CD ROM at the time. We also downloaded the titles from the UK's Record Collector’s magazine. We filled in all the ones we had in stock and then we erased all the rest. It still took six months with all the additional help. I had a number of friends who did the inputting for me. Had a number of people hated doing it and quit after one day.
Q. Jim, it was brilliant that you were had the foresight in 1996 to do that. Even today many are not doing that. Must take a lot of time to maintain your online inventory?
Yes I’ve devoted in a lot of time and money. Couple hundred dollars a week in expenses and between 10 to 15 hours additional work every week. Add the New Arrivals delete the ones we sold.
Q. You also rate every single record so how much time do you spend actually cleaning and listening to the records to determine their condition?
The rest of my work week is doing just that. It's 30 to 40 hours a week if I'm getting a lot of product. Once in a blue moon I get collections that do not need to be cleaned at all. That's a joyous occasion for me. Most of them will need to be dusted lightly to get the dirt and fingerprints off I don't pretend to actually thoroughly clean the records, more cosmetic. Other stores don’t do it. If they do I'm not aware of it.
Q. Why is it that SS (surface scratches) rated records still seem above average compare to other store ratings?
That's what we want to do - strive to underrate records. There's few arguments about our ratings or conditions of our records. Have a simple guarantee - If you're not happy with the condition bring it back. Had very few arguments in this area over the years.
Q. I know that you have in addition to your storefront collection a basement full of duplicate records so what would you estimate to be your total inventory of records at this point?
It hovers around 25,000. Including CDs and 78s. I've never done a complete inventory and never want to do one.
Q. Shifting towards more a personal topic what has been your most surprising recent record find? You've been in the business a long time and I imagine it takes a lot to surprise you.
Marty Robbins 10 inch LP which he first recorded under his own name. It was more rockabilly then country and western and is one of the most top collectible records. I had a very clean copy that I was able to sell for $500. Quite a while ago it would have been easy to get $1000 for that record.
Q. So just simply Supply and Demand, whatever the
market will bear?
It is for a bidding
war I had with two or three guys involved. I called one collector and indicated
I got this record do you want to place a bid on it and call you back after I
speak to the other people. So you make about 15 phone calls and the highest bid
gets the record. Acted as my own eBay sort of. It sounds greedy but it's
the only clear way to do it if these guys are begging you for these kinds of record.
If there's more than one person involved there are warned that if you want to
get it, you have to bid on it.
Q. Would you say that the highest selling records you mentioned would they be the rarest?
Generally it's a
question of the number of copies pressed for example Marty Robbins with the
10,000 copies where the other ones would be limited to only 1000 copies. Some
records are worth $10,000 for example R&B 78 from 1949. Five Keys is one of
them. I have never come across that record. Some records I don't know if
they even exist. For example the mono White album by the Beatles we know it
exists but was it ever released in Canada? And Bowie’s Diamond Dogs with
supposedly the dog’s genitalia on the cover – never even seen a picture of
it. So does it exist? I don't know.Q. Would you say that the highest selling records you mentioned would they be the rarest?
Q. What about the Beatles ‘butchers’ Yesterday and Today cover?
I've had a couple of those but only in paste over edition. I never got more than $100 for it. The copy where covered up the picture of them sitting on the trunks and people try to peel it but you could still see it underneath. In fact one of the first records that I received was that copy but I simply couldn’t afford it at the time. I explained to the owners what they had. I have found that it was important to be honest when you're dealing with people buying records and he'll tell 10 other people that this guy was honest.
Q. Are there certain titles that you could repeatedly sell over the years with high turnover and they may not necessarily be the most expensive record but just a consistent seller?
Probably Fleetwood Mac's Rumor. Only because it's easy to get and it always sells. Michael Jackson's Thriller is another one. Stardust by Willie Nelson. I sell every copy I get my hands on. It's amazing to me because there are millions of copies of these titles available and people are still looking for them. Meatloaf's Bat Out of Hell is a good seller but there's more supply than demand.
Q. How long of you been doing your yearend half-price sale?
Since day one as it has always been necessary to try to make space. That's what started it but now it's basically tradition. I swear I'm not going to do it anymore but I always do. First day of the yearend sale is the worst day of the year for me. There are 60 to 75 people that come only to my store only that day and that's one of the reason I don't enjoy it. They are just bargain hunters or other dealers. The other dealers I don’t mind so much because they show up occasionally. These people never come to my store any other time. But there have been so many yearend sales that now they are almost friends to me. Even though I resented them at the beginning they have become at least regulars for that sale. The ones that pissed me off the most are the ones that come in a week or two before just to scan the records and they hide them. They are wasting my time and then we have problems. I've been criticized for having a short temper but it's always with people who are wasting my time.
Q. Is the yearend sale a big revenue driver?
Well it's gone down dramatically over the years since CDs were hot I would get dealers who work in flea markets and they would just about buy every CD I had in the store. For those four days, I would estimate that I am making one third of what I was making back in those days.
Q. Do you have your own personal record collection?
No. I had to give up my collection when I started the store and I just decided that was the end of acquiring vinyl.
Q. Finally Jim what your listing of the top 10 records of all time?
1. Moby Grape (1967). Immediately popped
into my mind as my favorite album. 60s band that diversified. They were from
San Francisco and they weren't really hugely popular.
2. Rolling Stones - Let it Bleed (1969)
3. Mott the Hopple - 1st LP (1969)
4 Bob Dylan - Highway 61 Revisited (1965)
5. Isaac Hayes - Hot Buttered Soul (1969)
6. Don Ellis Live at the Fillmore Vol 1 (1970). Jazz trumpet player. Does a version of Hey Jude that makes me believe he hated it as much as I did.
7. Kate & Anne McCarrigle (1975). Basic thing in all these albums is that every song on them is very very good.
8. Tchaikovsky 1812 Overture (1978). I put that on the list because there's something about that that makes me weep every time I hear it. I love Tchaikovsky. TELARC digital version is especially excellent because every time the cannons go off the whole apartment shakes.
9. Frank Sinatra - Live at the Sands (1964)
10. John Prine - Bruised Orange (1978). Just because when I'm in a bad mood that record can cheer me up.
2. Rolling Stones - Let it Bleed (1969)
3. Mott the Hopple - 1st LP (1969)
4 Bob Dylan - Highway 61 Revisited (1965)
5. Isaac Hayes - Hot Buttered Soul (1969)
6. Don Ellis Live at the Fillmore Vol 1 (1970). Jazz trumpet player. Does a version of Hey Jude that makes me believe he hated it as much as I did.
7. Kate & Anne McCarrigle (1975). Basic thing in all these albums is that every song on them is very very good.
8. Tchaikovsky 1812 Overture (1978). I put that on the list because there's something about that that makes me weep every time I hear it. I love Tchaikovsky. TELARC digital version is especially excellent because every time the cannons go off the whole apartment shakes.
9. Frank Sinatra - Live at the Sands (1964)
10. John Prine - Bruised Orange (1978). Just because when I'm in a bad mood that record can cheer me up.
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